IBB's Return Necessitated by Inept Governance – Gbanite

Mr. Max Gbanite is a close associate of former president General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida (IBB), he is a security expert and international business consultant. In this interview with ABDULAZIZ ABDULAZIZ he spoke on a wide range of issues bordering on IBB’s presidential ambition, zoning arrangement of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and the fate of the former ruler in case the zoning formula is discarded. Excerpts:   

You are agitating for the return of IBB to power. Didn’t it occur to you what a man who is nearing 70 has to offer for Nigeria ?

First, to set the record straight, the man’s records tell us he is 67. His mind is focused. He is computer literate; he navigates the Facebook though not with his. He knows the background and topography of Nigeria and knows where he wants to take Nigeria. Having said that, I also lived in America for over 30 years when George  Bush contested for the presidency of America, he was in his late sixties, when Ronald Reagan became president of America he was 69. Now, as a Christian and Catholic for that matter, we have a pontiff who was a cardinal at the age of 80 and was made the pope. He is 83 years old and still serving. Babangida has a very sharp mind, there is no one that he met 20 years or 30 years ago that he doesn’t remember their names by first names once he sees the face. So are you telling me that such a man is ripe for exit?

But seeing that this is a position he served 17 years ago and now staging come back…

(cuts in) because the environment enabled it. If after 20 years when he left those that were left in charge of the country did what they supposed to do: built and capitalize on the infrastructures that were set in place, he would have no business coming out. But he has seeing moral decadence, he has seeing decay in infrastructure, he has witnessed the epileptic power supply, he has witnessed N16 billion being invested on IPP (Independent Power Project) and is not working; I entered Kano at night and Kano as a city is being deprived the opportunity to have full blast of light.

Some would say it was IBB that set the ground for all these decadence.

I doubt that; not many people. A few people who don’t like him have personalised issues. It was General Babangida that built the Apam power station,  it was him that upgraded Shiroro power station in order to boost power supply. During the era of Babangida you didn’t have epileptic power supply; the 400 industries in Kano were still functioning.  Weren’t they? They were functioning! So the decadence on the industries in Kano started immediately Obasanjo came to power, they started going down rapidly and started moving away and all the industries in Kaduna also close shop. But during the Babangida era all those industries were functioning and people were gainfully employed. People from rural areas were farming knowing that whatever they cultivated must get the real market value and that is why they love him in the rural areas.

Why is the man desperate about coming back?

 I don’t think the proper word to use is desperate. He has never been desperate, that is far from it. In 2003, we that love him went to him and tried to bring him back into power but he rejected. The South should have two terms and he discouraged anyone from disrupting that opportunity of zoning to enable the emperor, Obasanjo to complete his eight years of office. In 2006, we went to pull him out again, he tried to come out but he saw that the environment was not quite conducive especially when the same emperor Obasanjo brought in somebody Babangida really considered as a younger brother in late Umaru Yar’Adua, he (IBB) had to step back and his friend, Aliyu Gusau was also contesting at that particular point in time but he is a man of time, he bided his time. Now, he became the first to say he is contesting. Why should he do that? Because he sees the opportunity through fiscal federalism. Those opportunities are bound, nobody is talking about it, why true fiscal federalism? Because the power is concentrated too much in the centre, he wants to devaluate the power so that power can be in local governments and the states. What it means is that Kano State that has so much agriculture and mineral resources can begin to develop Kano on its own that means Kano State can now how its own IPP and develop the state without anybody going to Abuja at the end of the month to share excess crude. It means if the so called South-South wants to take control of the oil let it take it and pay tax to federal government, he is the only one that has the political will to do this.

Despite your campaigns not many people really believed that the man is actually in the race as it happened in 2006 for example. Would you assure Nigerians this time around that IBB is really out for business?

Well, he has repeatedly said he is in the race and as a friend of his and as somebody who has studied his policies and who understand his past policies and present policies and where we are going into the future, I am very well assured that he is in the race. The only thing that can stop him from contesting this election is act of God or what lawyers call force majo but as far as we are concerned no human can stop him. He is in this race to conclude it.

There is so much fuss over who produces the next president between North and South. Don’t you think this zoning arrangement will cost IBB his aspiration?

First of all, PDP did not start zoning; the people that introduced zoning in Nigeria were the British colonialists. They saw the beauty of this country and that each region is blessed with enormous resources and they decided to amalgamate this country so that the resource from the north  can go through the south to the sea to be taken out of the country by the British colonial masters. When they put all these in place, they did zoning by ethnic bearing. Zoning then was by ethnic bearing and that was why the late Sardauna of blessed memory was able to take Sunday Awoniyi as his aide and groomed the likes of Solomon Lar and groomed other Christians in the southern part of the north while also working with the Muslim part of the north. That was how they formed a formidable force called the North, that was zoning. Now when you look at the traditional rulers, now an emir dies today doesn’t mean his direct son inherits the throne but somebody within the heritage can get it; he can be his brother’s son, as far as they are part of that particular hierarchy. This is made possible in order to promote harmony for the traditional stool. The same thing when a hakimi is choosen, the hakimi is chosen based on zoning. The emir has the wisdom to do this so that he can harmonise the community and keep the society together.

This is what Nigerians saw and in 1979 it became part of the Federal Character Commission. It became part of our constitution. And from that derivative PDP did it and it was not only PDP. Why was it that when Buhari became presidential candidate he chose somebody from the South-East as his running mate? He couldn’t have chosen somebody from North-east to be his running mate which would make it a north/north ticket. There is wisdom, we shouldn’t enter into a buck to make zoning necessary, it unites and stabilises Nigeria . That is why members of the National Assembly are picked from zones, so also councilors at the local government level. PDP was very wise in saying we are going to use zoning to stabilize Nigeria and stabilize our party and use it as a strategy to win elections. So, why all of a sudden the only contentious issue now is zoning of presidency. Why did they pick Namadi Sambo from Kaduna as vice president, why didn’t they pick an Urhobo man to be vice president since there was no issue of zoning? Why did they Nwodo after Ogbulafor? Why didn’t they bring somebody from Kwara State ? So they are not being truthful.   

If we go back to my question, don’t you think this zoning would work against the interest of IBB?  

No. IBB is a rainbow and he is also a gentleman as he is a member of PDP. We are saying that the zoning should remain. Then in that particular case if the north is to present presidential candidate all those from the north who are interested in contesting for presidency under PDP should line up and let the party choose most qualified among them and present to Nigerians so that Nigeria can remain united. After all, when Obasanjo brought Goodluck Jonathan and attached him with Yar’Adua he wasn’t the most qualified candidate from the South-South neither was Yar’Adua the most qualified from the North but Obasanjo felt there was the need to punish the north, therefore, he chose a candidate for the north, but you can’t blame him because he was reciprocating; the north chose him against his people’s will so he felt he can deal a kernel blow to the north. That is what happened.

With outcry at certain quarters since IBB declares his intention to vie for the presidency and his falling out with Obasanjo whom he helped, some people feel that it is his past that is catching up with him especially as regards the annulment of June 12, 1993 presidential election.

No, I disagree with you. But let me come back to zoning. When Gowon was removed from office and Murtala Mohammed, a great Kano man, became head of state and was assassinated, many officers went to T.Y Danjuma, a Christian and said he should take over but MD Yusufu went to T.Y Danjuma and told him that ‘if you take over it will appear that the north is dominating the system, why don’t you allow number two?’ They zoned it to number who was Obasanjo as a military man and he enjoyed the power and when it was time to hand over power it was zoned to the North.

Shagari became president and to bring a credible partner to Shagari, vice presidency was zoned to the South-east. I don’t know how you can mingle zoning with June 12 except if you want to lay a booby-trap as a journalist but late me talk about June 12 for a minute. On January 15, 1966, a Prime minister was murdered, a regional Premier was murdered in north, another regional premier was murdered in the South-West. That was a greater annulment of democracy.  In December 1983 Shehu Shagari was re-elected and was sworn in but the military cabal removed him, nobody has apologized to Shehu Shagari but why must the South-wet continue to hammer on June 12. if you say that June 12 was free and fair election then who conducted that election? It was Babangida! Therefore he should be given credit of conducting free and fair election.

For building and demolition…

No. he didn’t demolish. You forgot that there are platforms that brought him to power. When Babangida came into power he did not announce his own coup. A group of soldiers announced the coup and brought him in and made him the head of state. When it was time to hand over the issue became why must he hand over to his own friend. He became a victim because he wanted to hand over to his friend. That friend was MKO Abiola who had had a hand in all the coups including the one that removed Shagari. Is God asleep? God doesn’t sleep. That is why the Austrialinas invented something that they call boomerang; when you create mischief it comes back to you. Was Abiola the most qualified candidate at that time?   

The cabal within the military said no, we are not going to take over. Why did it take almost seven Obas from South-west to went to the villa and tell Babangida ‘Abiola is not our candidate’? Therefore security reports have to be presented, Armed Forces Ruling Council had to deliberate, National Security Council had to deliberate and the issue became; election had to be postponed or annulled and Babangida still wanted that election to be concluded and it was concluded just to prove that there could be a Muslim/Muslim ticket in this country that two party system works in this country. Now the inconclusiveness of that election is not more sacrosanct than the one of 1983 that brought in Shagari presidency that hadn’t been sworn in and was removed.

We are practicing nascent democracy. We are on a journey to true democracy and therefore those happenstance are bound to happen. Living in America for over 30 years; I never thought a black man can be president but it took over 200 years to achieve that. Every time we begin to say America this, America that. When we practice our democracy for 200 years may be then we can begin to compare Nigeria with America .

Pro-democracy activists who are yet to recover from their experience with the IBB administration are seriously canvassing against his second coming. Don’t you think their campaigns can prove to be a serious blow to the man?

The question under democracy is the people you just mention are they in the majority? The most dangerous thing about NGOs is foreign interference are using NGOs to destabilize Nigeria . What I expect somebody who doesn’t like General Babangida to do is when Babangida emerges as the candidate of a party, is for you to go to the polls and cast your vote against him but not to smear him or insult him. We should not insult him. What democracy guarantees is if you don’t like candidate you go and vote him out and pray you succeed.

 He has strong character. What we remember Babangida for is the GSM you are holding, he started the revolution when he deregulated the telecom industry and issued license to Intercellular and mobilize Mtel to have 090 and then Obasanjo came and build on it into GSM. What we want to remember Babangida for is when he came in we ensured freedom by deregulating the radio industry and said someone has the right to own radio or television station. I traveled from Abuja to Kano on a dual carriage way put in place under 18 months. He built phase 1 of Abuja to give us a befitting capital city in three years. He established link between Nigeria and Israel to enable Christians go for pilgrimage to Jerusalem and also re-establish link with the OIC. What we remember Babangida for is bringing peace in the sub-Saharan region…

(cuts in…) this is for somebody who is a fan of IBB like you, it is one sided

No. it is because you media always look at only one percent of the man and expect to force it down our throat, you must look at the total picture. If you look at the total picture you would begin to see magnificence of the man. Who is he that is not a sinner? You as a media man need forgiveness, then you have lost the right to seek Allah to forgive you because you must forgive others.

With the issue of zoning in place, what chance do you see for IBB?

I don’t want to go into procrastination of forecast. The danger in what is happening is that Obasanjo and his clique have succeed in planting people in Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN). We should be talking of the danger the CAN of today portend for the nation because the last chairman of CAN, Archbishop Oneiyekan was working hand in hand with the Sultan to bring peace in the country but the Pentecostal movement sees CAN as a trajectory for political fame. So the new president is now saying Babangida is not supposed to vie for presidency. Who is he to judge Babangida? Mr Oriejefor who benefited under Obasanjo and now is heading CAN, who is he to condemn Babangida? Is’t because Babangida is a Muslim?

And now they are using Christianity to divide north, whereby you bring a Jerry Gana, a Solomon Lar, a Zwangina to form a northern leadership. Since when did Jerry Gana became a leader of the North? Somebody that rode on the back of Babangida and now they see the opportunity to make money. Since when did Ibrahim Mantu, who went to America and told us that we should support Abacha yet General Sani Abacha never told anybody that he was going to contest, they were forcing him. When he died what did Mantu do? Made shift and started supporting third term with Jerry Gana where they made money. Obasanjo’s third term came when he chose Umaru Yar’Adua, may his soul rest in peace, against the norms of democracy so what they want to do now is to extend fourth term for Obasanjo by insisting that Goodluck Jonathan runs. Why? Because he is a Christian. I want Goodluck Jonathan to contest for president because he is qualified. Is he not pro-zoning even when he was the deputy governor of his state? Until this time nobody came from Bayelsa to tell Nigerians that in his days after Alamisiegha is removed this is what he achieved there. And you now want to force him down my throat. Don’t I as a Nigerian has the right to choose? What they are now doing is to divide the country along religious lines. What we want is a president that would harmonise the country.

Somebody comes to tell me that Babangida has a past. Who doesn’t have past? But when you do what we call in business, the ABC analysis, you find that what the man has accomplished is greater than his follies. So, why shouldn’t I go to a man that doesn’t have a record for a man that has record? People talk about his age, tell me the governor who is under 50 and has performed well except a few of them. Are we not in Kano this night? Is Kano into solar night lights, I don’t see them in the street of Kano . Since the days of Audu Bako clean water has not run in Kano . But the man wants to be president with the little he has done in Kano . He has brought peace to Kano , there hasn’t being religious crises which we give him commendation for. But where are the industries in Kano ? Where are job opportunities? Till today Kano produces more tomatoes than any other state in the country yet there is no tomato processing plant in Kano .

What feelings or convictions do you have that IBB has a chance to grab the presidency come 2011?

Well, let me put it to you this way. God said, in the Holy Bible, if you believe, still to your beliefs. It’s best for me to believe that IBB has a better chance than not to believe.

Then what make you believe

Just like I said before, IBB is considered a rainbow. IBB is not a product of the north. He is a nationalist. He could have stayed in power but to avoid any fracas, being a nationalist, he stepped aside for Nigeria to continue. And being a gentle man he accepted responsibilities for everything. Many people who played roles in this country never took responsibility for their actions. He is the first. Another respected general, Buhari, has never taken responsibility for giving politicians 200 years imprisonment. IBB has come out to reveal what he is going to do when he assume office. Nobody else who is aspiring for this position has been brave enough to say so, that is leadership. A leader takes you to where you may not want to go but at the edn of it you find that that is where you need to be.

Look at what is happening in Greece today is what we went through in the ‘80s – the Structural Adjustment Programme which you called SAP and I called it deregulation policy. It is that deregulation policy that established National Directorate of Employment (NDE), which is still functioning to date. Babangida had engrained himself in the infrastructural development of Nigeria . He created 239 local governments out of 774 we have and created 11 states out of the 36 so which NGO is going to tour 239 local government and 11 states to tell them not vote for Babangida who helped them gaining identity.

Did IBB’s aspiration depend on PDP?

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Abdulaziz A. Abdulaziz
Kano State Correspondent,
LEADERSHIP Newspapers,
Nigeria.
bnahmadfagge85@yahoo.co.uk
P O Box 12627, Kano
www.abdulazizfagge.blogspot.com