Mr. Max Gbanite is a security expert and consultant on security issues. In this interview with INNOCENT ODOH and JULIUS OGAR, he speaks on the security challenges facing Nigeria and what needs to be done. Excerpts:

There are fundamental security challenges facing Nigeria at the moment. As a security expert, what do you think is actually the problem?

Security the way Nigerians see it is quite different from the strategic perspective. Grand security perspective encompasses environmental security, human capacity security, agricultural security, power and energy sector security.

Why we feel security is a challenge to Nigeria is because something new is happening in the country and that is terrorism. Armed robbery has abated to an extent. But what about political terrorism that is visited upon the people when you rig elections? What about economic terrorism when the rich steal from the poor and make no returns to the community?

Internal security challenges are everywhere. The United States where I live for 32 years is no longer the same; Britain is not the same today. China which is supposed to be peaceful has its own challenges. But why the issue is more prevalent in Nigeria is that the security agencies are not prepared for what they see, they were not trained for what they see so they are overwhelmed.

How do you see the trend in suicide bombing that has emerged on the national scene?

The ideology of suicide bombing is an imported ideology; it is not Islamic. Islam is a peaceful religion, I have read the Qur’an cover to cover and there is no place in it that talks about suicide bombing. I have read the Bible cover to cover and it does not talk about taking one’s life and others. So this ideology is imported and it has come to nurture itself in Nigeria because those in authority have failed the people. So people see life from a warped perspective.

 The people who are now killing themselves in the pattern of suicide bombing, are people who have lost hope. So they now think they can bring fear into the system and Nigerians must resist them with their last breath.

What do you think the state is not doing right at the moment that is making these elements to grow in strength, in terror and character going by the recent incident at the police headquaters?     

Well, first things first, the choice of leadership. You do not impose leaders on the people. The people must be given the chance to choose their leaders. When they choose their leaders, chances are that they would listen to their leaders.

Secondly when the latest indices on education were released and you see people in Borno and Yobe not going to school, it is unacceptable. During the era of Sardauna, even though you may be an Almajiri, you were given the privilege of having Western education to match it. So you find out that somebody who was denied the privilege of going to secondary school and who was 10 years old in 1999 when the new democracy was ushered in, is today 23 or 24 years old. So if he was a child Almajiri, he is today an adult Almajiri and he will grow up to be an elder Almajiri with no contribution to the system. Instead he is looking to take from the system.

There is another very threatening development concerning the security challenges facing the nation – the influx foreigners. Boko Haram has claimed to have recruited about 100 people for suicide missions. What is the implication of the influx foreigners especially from Somalia, Chad and Niger into Nigerian territory?

Well, I leave that to the immigration department. However, based on the countries you mentioned, Somalia for instance, does someone living in Somalia have hope? The hope and dignity to live have been taken from him; he has found a way of making money as a sea pirate, so coming to Nigeria to kill himself for a fee is something of grandeur.

People from Chad are constantly rebellious against their home government; Darfur is very close to there. In Niger the same thing, so across that particular border you have similarities in culture and religion such that Nigerian Immigration might not even be able to discern who is from Niger and who is from Borno State. That means if you and I were there, we would be seen more as foreigners than as Nigerians when compared with people from Niger and Chad.

So these are the things that Nigeria needs to look into. But Nigeria is not an exception, the US is contending with the issue of porous borders warranting them to think about building a wall along the California and Mexico border – almost 6, 000 miles of fence. But would it work, would it stop people? US has increased funding in border patrol and has introduce both a combination of artificial intelligence with human intelligence and has even gone further to see if they can invest in Mexico to keep Mexicans working in their country rather than coming into the US if that is what is attracting them. These are things you have to look into strategically.

Now the issue of Boko Haram claiming that they have imported up to a hundred people, while I cannot refute that, I cannot agree with them. The issue is that they have shown audacity that they can take their lives with others and that is very worrisome to security.

Within the context of what is happening today, do you subscribe to the view that the Inspector General of Police ought to have resigned?

I will not want to say that, because from what I know of Hafiz Ringim, he is from the background of police intelligence so he ought to do better. But sometimes whether it is youthful or elderly exuberance gets the best of somebody. The comment he was credited to have made in Maiduguri was not in the best interest of the police, the presidency and the nation.

I remember when George Bush used the word “Axis of Evil”, it infuriated North Korea, Iran and China but today those nations have found a way to mellow down their annoyance and they are negotiating with the US.

The IG does not have to resign. It is imperative that the police work closely with the locals, district heads, emirs, town unions, the igwes and obas in order to safeguard this nation. It is worrisome to me that the military are being used for internal security.

Is it a good idea that soldiers should be mounting roadblocks and causing traffic jams around the city?

If these measures were not put in place, Nigerians will say: ‘in spite of the bombing nothing was done’. The soldiers are not foreign soldiers, they are Nigerians, owned by tax payers, and their job is to protect Nigerians since the police are overwhelmed. Out of the 307,000 policemen today, 100, 000 are on private duty – short changing the nation.

If the police and the military can jointly have trained dogs, the job will be easier and faster because all a dog needs do is to go round a car once and it will be able to know if the car has any kind of explosive or not.

There are close to 4, 500 chemical compounds used in making explosives, there are close to 45,000 ways to make a bomb and there are close to 14 million ways to make explosive devices. So no particular technology can detect any of these things. Only a dog has the capacity to sniff out liquid explosives, gaseous explosives, plastic explosives, metal explosives, and nitrates and all manner of chemical compounds used in making explosives.

So the military and the police have to invest in security. The reason why the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency records remarkable success is that they combine both the technical and canine units. What they can’t see in the x-ray, the dog is able to sniff. The dog is even able to know a human being that swallowed drugs.

So all I ask of Nigerians is to bear with the police and the soldiers and to be a law abiding citizens.

The security structure tends to be tailored towards VIP protection with 10 or 15 body guards. How can we change this kind of orientation?

As long as political parties impose leadership on the people, as long the wealthy insist they should be the ones governing and the choice is not made by the people, then you find out that the VIPs will be afraid of the people. If the people elected you into office, why be afraid of them? Why would the people that elected you want to kill you? You find out that you become one of the people when the choice is of the people.  But when you are imposed on the people, you will be afraid of your own shadow and that is when you have 10 people protecting you. It is quite unfortunate.

Until the federal government says enough is enough – if you are a minister, you are only entitled to one police orderly, no more convoys. During the military era, a military governor only had a five-car convoy and none was a jeep, and the military never had overwhelming armed security details. So these are changing times and there are changing crimes to go with it. It will take the political will of the president to change it.

Do you think it is possible?

It is possible if good governance can be practiced in Nigeria.

What about the carrot-and-stick proposition that President Jonathan has put forward to resolve the Boko Haram issue, is it in order?

It is in order because it was Umaru Yar’Adua who introduced carrot-and-stick approach in Niger Delta. People have forgotten that bomb blasts originated from the Niger Delta, kidnapping originated from the Niger Delta. The difference between Boko Haram and the Niger Delta is that the local chiefs in Niger Delta were in collaboration with the militants. So there was a face to negotiate with.

The difference now with Boko Haram is that having killed their leaders, Yusuf and Foi, it is difficult to identify a face which you can negotiate with. Your newspaper (Blueprint) even did a better job than police intelligence by going to the grassroots and bringing out information and the last picture of the supposed suicide bomber, riding in a car with an A-K 47. That is world class investigative journalism.

So what the police need to do is to find you and ask where you got the information from, can you lead us to the people so that negotiation can begin. Why I used the word negotiation or dialogue is that what else can you do to Boko Haram that you haven’t done to them? Yar’Adua ordered what I call the doctrine of massacre. They went into their enclave killing 750 members of the sect, arresting close to 2, 000, displacing some of them, jailing some of them. They remained in jail for months without trial. They took away hope from them. They lost the chance to convert them to good citizens. So they took to the last resort.

Even when the military are doing a campaign, even if they surround an opposing army, they do not annihilate them; they give them a chance to escape and a chance to be captured. Because if you surround them and use the doctrine of annihilation, then you will suffer further injuries because the man now is fighting for his life and he will like to take part of your team while dying. So that is where we find ourselves. I hope that the federal government can find an identifiable face that they can deal with, otherwise it would not work.

Finally sir, what will you tell us that we have not asked in relation to this issue?

How do we stop this menace? After the carrot and stick approach what else? The police need to be retrained; you need to empower the state security services. Right now the SSS are less than 12,000 strong. In a population of 150 million people, they should be close to 50, 000 to 100, 000 because they are the first line of intelligence gathering. They should be given money and the capacity to employ people and be able to infiltrate every mosque, every church, and every organ of the society and be able to gather first class information.

The government must make Nigerians their ally before the Boko Haram makes the people their own ally. We need propaganda experts that will tell them that suicide bombing is un-Islamic. And respected northerners should be the ones passing these messages to counter Boko Haram.

The same amnesty treatment given to Niger Delta should be given to identifiable Boko Haram. Create early education and adult education to tell the Boko Haram child that look, you don’t have shoes, but you can be president, you can be senator. Why? Because Jonathan never had a shoes but he is the president today. You must give him the reason to live.

Finally the government must be able to match artificial intelligence gathering with human intelligence gathering. What stops the security agencies from having unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in the north east that operate day and night, monitoring human movement and be able to match it with human intelligence gathering to detect an action before it happens. All it takes is funding and the political will.

And what stops the NSA from engaging professionals like us and ask questions for guidance. But they will not; they are looking for sycophants who don’t have the intellectual knowledge to see the strategic needs of this nation.