Judging Jude
ONYEKA NWELUE
Manchester, England
Saturday, July 15, 2006
The first day I lay my hands on Walking with Shadows, Jude Dibia’s first novel woven around the life of a homosexual, I thought I was reading the book in a dream. I got suffused with the thoughts about how such a book could be written, edited, and published in Nigeria -- a country that is so homophobic, without any protests from the Government and from the society. So when I had the opportunity to interview him, I realized that my worries had come to an end; therefore, I had these questions for him.
Dibia
Nwelue
ON:
Onyeka Nwelue
JD: Jude Dibia
ON: Having gone through your work, one tends to understand fully that it has a homosexual theme that is surpassing. How did the inspiration come to you?
JD: It was quite easy really. The society today in Nigeria is changing quite a lot. It would be rather naive if one pretends not to notice the growing trend of gay men and the ordeal they have to live through. I was intrigued by this and also by the other side you know... how do their wives/girlfriends feel if they were all of a sudden challenged with this reality; I couldn't pass up the possibility.
ON: Apparently, we should also believe that this sort of book was thoroughly researched because of its theme. How long did it take you to engage yourself in the minds of these people?
JD: My research was very detailed. I had the opportunity of interacting with quite a number of gay males and females. My discussions with them opened my eyes to a lot of truths and pains they encounter. It can never be easy to be stigmatized and eternally condemned or simply being tagged "queer." One of the quotes in my novel -- the last chapter when Adrian explains to Ada, his estranged wife, what it meant to be gay -- was a direct quote from one of my sources. I couldn't change anything... it was so beautiful the way and the passion my source framed that explanation.
ON: Your protagonist, Adrian, is such that haunts. How was it when you were creating him? Did you ever get influenced by his character?
JD: Truth is that as a writer you have to find a balance between fiction and reality. Creating Adrian was a challenge as I had the task of creating a persona that would be believable and someone the majority would feel empathy toward, regardless of his one "flaw." I had to dig deep within myself to find that something I could share with this character. And I did. I was able to explore a part of my youth and childhood that I found difficult... you know, coping with the petty jealousy we have toward our siblings because we believe they are more favoured and so [many] other things that when constructed properly would give Adrian the believability his character demanded.
ON: Another thing that impedes one about your story is that it is unusual to all the books ever written by any Nigerian writer. The structure looks extreme, the storyline charms. I have read Femi Ademiluyi's The New Man, and his protagonist is incidentally sodomised while in the prison. But in your story, the entire pages are loaded with this theme, and that makes it gripping and undeniable. Do you fear any kind of retaliation from the society or the Government, as things are running deeply in the country now?
JD: You have used the word "sodomy" and this troubles me quite a bit. My book or, better still, the experience of the characters in my story has nothing to do with sodomy. But again it is a word the society and indeed government have decided to relate to the gay society and this, on its own, is a dangerous perception. I believe sodomy is a crime and should never be encouraged to thrive. Gay love on the other hand is shared between consenting adults... we need to separate the two. To your question now: I am aware of the implication of my story. Would I be victimised either by the reading public or government? I seriously cannot answer that now. It is an innocent enough story that makes anyone who reads it sit back and begin to ask themselves questions.
ON: Honestly, I have sat down and thought about it. But with this, would you say that you do not feel pitched when people say that no one can write such a thing without having the experience?
JD: That is what we writers are meant to do with our stories. It is extremely ignorant for civilised people to think that way. In my next story, I take up the voice of a woman who has been through a lot of abuse in her life. It is an extreme story. Does that make me a woman because I spoke in a female voice? Does it mean I have been abused to be able to tell such a story? People have asked me similar questions but, really, I choose not to answer them because I think questions in that vein are rude and silly. Would it really make a difference if I have experienced such complexity with my sexuality? What difference would it make?
ON: Reading your book has been like a dream to me. How long did it take you to finish such a debut work, which I can say has been critically acclaimed even in the Western part?
JD: Thank you for being so kind. Writing Walking with Shadows took about two years in all. I can safely say I started the research on the story earlier and then building up the characters as well. Since I have a 9-to-5 job, writing has been very difficult. When I get home I am so tired and all, but I still struggle to write as often as possible.
ON: I have heard people name their favourite writers and say this is their philosophy. Do you embed yourself with the fact that you have favourite writers? Who are they? And why?
JD: Favourite writers! I can't say I have any. I have writers I admire their work. Then again I have an eclectic taste in books. Of recent, the writer who has captured my admiration is Andrea Levy, author of Small Island. Andrea was able to take the bull by the horn when she decided to attack the Jamaican immigrant story to England. She challenged the concept of colonialism, mother country, imperial England, racial discrimination, and much more and she did it in a very engaging way. I was so awed when I was through with her novel. I admire other writers as well, but they are too many to name individually
ON: Having seen the way Nigerian writers are booming abroad, one tends to understand that they are superb. But when you talk about Nigerian literature in Asia, precisely in India, it seems you are talking of one doomed firewood. I asked about Nigerian books in stores in India, I was only able to get clued to Ben Okri's The Famished Road. Obviously, all Indians know of Nigerians is fraud and internet scams. The next is, I met an Indian who claims to hold a doctorate degree in philosophy and, when I asked him what he knows about Africa, he said that the capital of Africa is Ghana. What do you think is the cause of all these?
JD: Complete ignorance first and foremost! Then again what are we doing to erase the negative perception the world have of us? We can't keep waiting for the government to do something, can we? Who are our ambassadors? We are! We have to start, you and I, one after the other, to educate the people we meet out there about the true Nigerian. I don't sit ideal when I am abroad and let some ignorant foreigner talk rubbish about my people. I always engage them in intellectual conversation and let them know that no matter how "civilised"- - I use the term loosely-- they think are, it is amazing that the average African or Nigerian knows so much more about them than they know about us or Africa. We do have some bad eggs, some bad leaders, etc., but the good in us outnumbers them.
ON: Looking at the part of fraud, what would you have to say about the "imbecilic fraud" and "unintentional" copying of Megan McCafferty's work by the Indian writer, Kaavya Viswanathan?
JD: Shocking! It makes one wonder how desperate this Kaavya fellow is that an obvious plagiarism of someone else's work was the only way she believes she can use to forge her way in the literary society?
ON: (Laughter) I think she was so desperate, more than I am at this moment.
JD: I can imagine
ON: So tell us: this mesmerizing debut should be in some prize lists before now? What is really happening to it? Or has ANA never considered it worthy of a prize?
JD: I haven't really considered prizes yet, but I am sure my publishers would be entering this in some of the literary prizes for possible consideration. I am trying not to think of what the judges would think of such an unusual story.
ON: I have been able to compare and contrast this book with others written by our West-based writers, and I think there is no much difference. The packaging is excellent and, moreover, I still insist that your story is exhilarating and the staccato in the story is gripping. How come such a "packager" or publisher is unknown in Nigeria?
JD: You flatter me so! Thank you, George. The publisher is relatively new - BlackSands Books. I happen to be the first author they took a chance with. With time, they would be well known; I'm sure. The packaging was indeed fantastic, wasn't it!
ON: I also need to ask this question. What do you think has made this Nobel Prize not coming to Nigeria again, since the past twenty years Soyinka was added to the list? Some say it has been Whitenised, some say it has been Westernised. What is your own perception of this whole thing?
JD: The NP is one of the most prestigious prizes to be won by anyone. Why hasn't it come to Nigeria again? I believe there are many reasons, but if one is truly objective, we can admit that the NP is awarded to writers for their body of work - many of these works and their writers always seem to have something to do with human rights, etc. Having said that, what do you think the issue is? It will come when it would come and to a deserving writer as well!
ON: Even if it is deeply rooted in the human rights part, should people like Achebe be abandoned? And if it is in the drama aspect, someone like Osofisan is honestly destined to dine with the Nobel Laureates. But what do you think Nigerians should do to make this prize come to us again?
JD: Big questions you have! Achebe is well-respected worldwide, regardless of not ever winning the NP. I am proud of him, and he seems not to be perturbed by the NP either. I believe that as a writer, just write and keep writing to enlighten people... never focus your writing on winning a prize no matter how prestigious, lest you get very distracted. History and time will vindicate the exceptional writer; look at Shakespeare today! Who would have imagined that his work would still be celebrated in the 21st century?
ON: To Shakespeare, I was told recently that the Shakespeare we all talk about is Francis Bacon, a Rosicrucian in England. His dates of birth and death are close with that of the claimed Shakespeare. Obviously, I am meant to understand that there is nothing like Shakespeare, when you look at the way people rewrite his works each day. Do you think what I think? (Laughs)
JD: And what would that be, good sir?
ON: Tolu Ogunlesi said that writers like having animals. Do you have any?
JD: Oh gosh... I'm almost shy to say. I do! I have a 3-year-old female rottweiller
ON: Anyway, it has been nice talking with you, Mr. Dibia. I wish this conversation doesn't end, but it has to.
JD: Thank you, George... always call me Jude!
ON: You are welcome. I will.
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Jude Dibia was born in Lagos, Nigeria on 5 January, 1975. He studied German Language at the University of Ibadan, Nigeria. His novel, Walking with Shadows, was published to wide acclaim in Nigeria and stirred controversy amongst his readers over the unusual theme that blurs the book. He lives and works in Lagos and shares his time between Nigeria and the UK.
Onyeka Nwelue was born on the 31 January 1988 in Nigeria. He has authored a collection of poems, I Will Die When I Want (Hybun Publishers; September 2006) and has been published in The Guardian, The Sun, Daily Times, Litbit Online Magazine, Wild Goose Poetry Review, Universal Journal and has been part of many international events, including the International Writers Festival and Youth Literary Seminar-2006, which took places in India and Bangladesh, respectively. His novel is forthcoming, and he is presently a student of English Literature at the University of Manchester, England.
See also: Radhika Seth: A conversation with Onyeka